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Babylonian Talmud: Tractate Baba Mezi'aand the practice of shipowners1 is [to receive] the hire at the time of meshikah2 and the [payment for] loss when it is shipwrecked. But does such a thing depend upon custom?3 — The usage arose as the result of the Baraitha which was taught.4 R. 'Anan said in Samuel's name: Orphan's money may be lent out at interest.5 R. Nahman objected: Because they are orphans we are to feed them with forbidden food! Orphans who eat what is not rightfully theirs may follow their testator! Now tell me, said he, what actually transpired?6 — He replied: A cauldron, belonging to the children of Mar 'Ukba [who were orphans], was in Samuel's care, and he weighed it before hiring it out and weighed it when receiving it back, charging for its hire and for its loss of weight: but if a fee for hiring, there should be no charge for depreciation, and if a charge for depreciation, there should be no fee for hiring.7 He replied: Such a transaction is permitted even to bearded men, since he [the owner] stands the loss of wear and tear, for the more the copper is burnt, the greater is its depreciation.8 Rabbah b. Shilah said in R. Hisdah's name — others state, Rabbah b. Joseph b. Hama said in R. Shesheth's name: Money belonging to orphans may be lent on terms that are near to profit and far from loss.9 Our Rabbis taught: [One who invests money on terms] near to profit but far from loss is a wicked man; near to loss but far from profit is a pious man; near to both or far from both — that is the arrangement of the man in the street.10 Rabbah asked R. Joseph: What is done with orphan's money? — He replied: It is entrusted to Court, and paid out to them in instalments.11 But surely the principal will disappear! he urged. What then would you do? he asked. — He replied: We seek out a man who possesses broken pieces of gold,12 take the gold from him,13 and entrust to him the orphan's money on terms that are near to profit and far from loss. But an object which bears an identification mark14 cannot [be taken as a security]15 lest it was [merely] entrusted to him, and its owner may come, state the mark [which proves his ownership] and take it away. R. Ashi demurred: That is well if you find a man who possesses broken gold; but if you do not, is the orphan's money to be frittered away? — But, said R. Ashi, we seek out a man whose property is secure,16 who is trustworthy, obedient to the law of the Bible,17 and will not suffer a ban of the Rabbis,18 and the money is given to him in the presence of a Beth din.19
Baba Mezi'a 70b
MISHNAH. ONE MAY NOT ACCEPT FROM AN ISRAELITE AN 'IRON FLOCK' [INVESTMENT WITH COMPLETE IMMUNITY FOR THE INVESTOR], BECAUSE THAT IS USURY. BUT SUCH MAY BE ACCEPTED FROM HEATHENS.1 AND ONE MAY BORROW FROM AND LEND TO THEM ON INTEREST. THE SAME APPLIES TO A RESIDENT ALIEN.2 AN ISRAELITE MAY LEND A GENTILES MONEY [ON INTEREST] WITH THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE GENTILE, BUT NOT OF THE ISRAELITE.3
GEMARA. Shall we say that it stands under the ownership of the contractor?4 But the following is opposed thereto: If one undertakes [to breed sheep] on 'iron flock' terms for a heathen,5 the young are exempt from [the law of] firstlings!6 — Abaye answered: There is no difficulty; in the one case, he [the owner] accepted [the risk of] unpreventable accident and depreciation; in the other, he did not.7 Said Raba to him: If the owner accepts the risk of depreciation and [unpreventable] accidents, do you designate it 'iron flock'? Moreover, instead of the second clause teaching, BUT SUCH MAY BE ACCEPTED FROM GENTILES, let a distinction be drawn and taught in that [sc. the first clause] itself, [thus:] When does this hold good [that 'iron flock' may not be accepted from a Jew], only if he [the investor] does not bear the risk of unpreventable accidents or depreciation; but if the investor accepts these risks, it is permissible? — But, said Raba, in both cases [viz., as taught in our Mishnah and with reference to firstlings] he [the investor] does not accept the risk of accidental damage or depreciation; but with respect to the firstlings, this is the reason that the young are exempt thereof: since if he [the breeder] did not render the money,8 the heathen would come and seize the cow [entrusted to the breeder in the first place], and should he not find the cow, seize the young, it is a case of 'the hand of a heathen coming in the middle',9 and wherever that is so, there is exemption from the law of firstlings: He that by usury and unjust gain increaseth his substance, he shall gather it for him that pitieth the poor.10 Who is meant by, for him that pitieth the poor? — Rab said: e.g., King Shapur.11 R. Nahman observed: Huna told me that [this verse] is needed to show that usury [taken] even from a heathen [leads to loss of one's wealth]. Raba objected to R. Nahman: Unto a stranger tashshik:12 now, what is meant by 'tashshik': surely that 'thou mayest receive usury'? — No: 'thou mayest give usury.'13 [What!] Cannot one do without?14 — It is to exclude 'thy brother,' [to whom thou mayest] not [give usury].15 As for thy brother, is it not explicitly stated, but unto thy brother thou shalt not give usury?16 — [To intimate] that both a positive and negative injunction are violated.17 He [further] raised an objection: ONE MAY BORROW FROM AND LEND MONEY TO THEM ON INTEREST, AND THE SAME APPLIES TO A RESIDENT ALIEN!18 — R. Hiyya, the son of R. Huna, said: This [permission] is granted only [up to] - To Next Folio -
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